Curse

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 01, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Changed the build abit after the recent hero AI update:

Human Nec's bar:
[build=OAdTY0z6VaBiN4G0OwSImkR0mEA]

Nec 1:
[build=OANEUsl98JVPMTQScUpAWVFzgGA]

Nec 2:
[build=OAhjUwGZYSTOSTjTCPKgVVxM4BA]

Nec 3:
[build=OAhjUwGZYSTOSTciJXKgVVxMTBA]

The usage is simple: Cast Assassin's Promise + "You Move like a Dwarf" on your target. This meets both of Discord's requirements in less than a sec so the other necs can start using it right there. Target dies, your skills are recharged, repeat on next target.

Discord is only one skill, and pretty much where all the damage comes from. The entire build is very flexible and can be run by any prof. This is just a variant I run that relies almost complete on the player to do the hexing/conditions so it saves skillspace on the heroes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Promise

AP is good for casters to meet one of Discord's reqs quickly. It's got e-management attached to it so you can spec pretty high into Deadly Arts for this alone.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Asuran_Scan

Now that this has no cast time, phys classes now have a good cheap hex to use along with making them do massive damage.

Turbobusa · Jun 02, 2008, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Needs protective spirit somewhere really
I wouldn't use bone horror either, they suck at dealing damage and minions are better meatshield + death nova fodder.
More weakness is good, heroes use it well.

I posted my discord build in another thread (linky)
Less self sufficent, moar damage

distilledwill · Jun 02, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Why no resses? You only have vengeance in there, which means you're going to have to keep using it every 30s, unless you're relying on a hench monk, then i guess its ok.

Luminarus · Jun 02, 2008, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Looks fun, havent used discord or nec in a while though

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 02, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Why no resses? You only have vengeance in there, which means you're going to have to keep using it every 30s, unless you're relying on a hench monk, then i guess its ok.

I honestly never really had a problem with res'ing. The only time I'd want the nec to stop res'ing someone with Vengeance is out of battle, and at that point I just cancel it and leave it to a monk hench. Only other decent option was Res Chant, but after messing with Vengeance I started to like it. Also gives the MM free corpses so that's a bonus. I've never been a fan of putting a res on multiple heroes - I like saving skillspace. If it's a mission, then maybe I'll think about it, but for vanquishing you'll res at a shrine if things get too bad anyways.

English Warrior · Jun 02, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Spike in PVE? luls

Master Necromanz · Jun 03, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I will try this week, but i think it will work only there should be anuthing fix on the monk skills... maybe PS

Super Igor · Jun 03, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

LOL

I like Infuse on heroes QQ

Helaing Cercle is iffy too, but the concept looks decent, might want rit spells over monk's maybe.

Master Necromanz · Jun 03, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

igor, dont think this build is lol, cause it real works~!!

DarkSpirit · Jun 03, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Necromanz

igor, dont think this build is lol, cause it real works~!!

I dont see why it wouldn't work to an extend. I have been running dual MM builds over sabway, with just 1 healer hench and that even works in HM.

The question to ask is, is this more powerful than the current sabway? If not, then its value is more limited, maybe only for people who want something different.

It seems this rely on the player being necro? In this sense maybe it is more limited than sabway? Is it even more powerful then? If not then why bother?

Tyla · Jun 03, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Looks fun.

But is it really true that heroes respond (With Discord on their bar) to an enemy having a condition and a hex on them, by using Discord as they do Wurm Siege when you first aggro?

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 03, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

It seems this rely on the player being necro? In this sense maybe it is more limited than sabway? Is it even more powerful then? If not then why bother?

I guess you can say this and the SS/MM/Rt setup are opposites when it comes to the work that the player has to do - with the ss/mm/rt setup, all the heroes pretty much do the work on their own, but the whole build lacks strong direct damage. Heroes won't always put Barbs on the right targets, and minions attack what they want. SS requires the target to be alive to actually do damage. With this setup, the direct damage is much more powerful. It requires a little more work from the human player, but in a way you get "rewarded" for it - you can deal with specific threats much faster. Being the one with Mark of Pain is also a huge help since heroes almost always use it wastefully.

The only reason this build is abit more reliant on the player is simply cause the human bar has the only conditions (not counting poison from Nova). Of course, you could put Enfeeble/Enfeebling Blood/Weaken Armor so the heroes can Discord stuff on their own, but I really like saving skillspace. I also don't mind being the main "caller". That's another reason I'm not fan of bringing multiple Res skills - it saves skillspace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Looks fun.

But is it really true that heroes respond (With Discord on their bar) to an enemy having a condition and a hex on them, by using Discord as they do Wurm Siege when you first aggro?

Heroes are really good with Discord. They'll use it as soon as both reqs are met. If they arn't using it when they should, it's because they're busy making minions/putting stuff on them or just tossing out a few random heals. If you had only Discord on their bars though, they would use it almost instantly whenever they can. From what I've seen though, it seems to take a little higher priority over other skills...

the_jos · Jun 04, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Heroes are really good with Discord. They'll use it as soon as both reqs are met. If they arn't using it when they should, it's because they're busy making minions/putting stuff on them or just tossing out a few random heals. If you had only Discord on their bars though, they would use it almost instantly whenever they can.

True.
I've used Discord spikers for a while now in RoT and other areas (the extra damage from max LB does help a lot there) and they use it quite good.
However, with the original GvG Discord team the builds seemed more efficient in spiking.
I've been watching my heroes and they don't always use Discord even when the skill is ready and they are not casting other stuff.
Perhaps this will be better when using more than one human, so the hexing and conditions are applied by humans only and the heroes need to react only.
That's what they do best.

Super Igor · Jun 05, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Necromanz

igor, dont think this build is lol, cause it real works~!!

"Oh rly it looks crap but it works trust me!! Test it, now, rly, it works...rly..."

Amirite?

Anyway, the concept is fine, it does deal a lot of conditional but high damage, wont use it iver sabway surely but the concept is still interesting.

Problem, and fail, starts when you get to monk spells, Infuse is terribad on heroes, they sometime would spam their head of with it...not good, especially with lack of blocking which as sab has shown in new 3 nec vanquish is crucial for 60AL squishy. Healing cercle is bad, cool lets heal all the melee that is able to ruin your day so it wont die before we do...great, no, sorry but healing mobs around me is no good.

imo, give two necs some restoration skills, aweasome ones like wepon of warding, life, SL and MBaS, give one nec some prots and dwayna's sorrow, the aweasomesausical party wide heal from minions, and you would be fine.

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 05, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Problem, and fail, starts when you get to monk spells, Infuse is terribad on heroes, they sometime would spam their head of with it...not good, especially with lack of blocking which as sab has shown in new 3 nec vanquish is crucial for 60AL squishy. Healing cercle is bad, cool lets heal all the melee that is able to ruin your day so it wont die before we do...great, no, sorry but healing mobs around me is no good.

imo, give two necs some restoration skills, aweasome ones like wepon of warding, life, SL and MBaS, give one nec some prots and dwayna's sorrow, the aweasomesausical party wide heal from minions, and you would be fine.

After vanquishing most of EotN and doing a few HM missions with this setup, phys attackers have never really been the cause of a death. Enfeebling Blood alone makes them weak. The better defense comes from "You move like a Dwarf". It's a dual purpose skill - it can interrupt casters because it's an insta KD, and cripple melee making them useless. Because AP recharges all skills, every enemy you target is gonna get it. As for Healing Circle, you might think mobs get healed by it but that's rarely the case. A heroes' first reaction when a melee gets in range is to kite. Often they'll kite themselves out of adjacent range from most of the team. HC doesn't heal the caster so obviously they're not gonna use it. I have seen melee get healed by it on a rare occassion, but they die fast anyways so I'm not worried about that. As for Infuse, I'm not sure about this "spam" - I've never seen them spam it or use it wastefully (besides out of combat minion-healing) and I've also seen it make some saves on a few rare occasions.

I'm still deciding if I really want blocks or not. I've thought about Spirit Light/Wep of Warding but to be honest, I'd fight nothing but phys mobs if I could because they're easy to kill. If phys attackers somehow become a threat, you're probably doing something wrong or are bad prioritizing targets. Ele's with aoe have been the biggest threats so far but if I really need to, Technobabble makes a joke out of them. I prefer "Ymlad" just because it's alot more versatile.

Super Igor · Jun 06, 2008, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Imo, if healing cercle doesnt give you anything in battle except occasionally healing melee, why use it? Even weakened some mobs can deal massive...and I mean >>MASSIVE<< damage, thois why I personally go on overkill with blocks and melee hate, with caster you can deal ok, just kite for their hits, spread, but kiting from lelee that move nearly twice as fast than you gets much harder and much more painful as hits in the back are always critical. This why making melee live any longer is not good and blocking stuff is so important especially when facing mobs like Destroers, Jade Brotherhood Knights and Charr Archers. Rit spels have insane heal, it is good, and no matter what, make sure you take a spammable mean of blocking it helps, the fact of you lacking prot is slso quite bad, ditching a spirit bond on necro's bar is never bad.

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 06, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Imo, if healing cercle doesnt give you anything in battle except occasionally healing melee, why use it? Even weakened some mobs can deal massive...and I mean >>MASSIVE<< damage, thois why I personally go on overkill with blocks and melee hate, with caster you can deal ok, just kite for their hits, spread, but kiting from lelee that move nearly twice as fast than you gets much harder and much more painful as hits in the back are always critical. This why making melee live any longer is not good and blocking stuff is so important especially when facing mobs like Destroers, Jade Brotherhood Knights and Charr Archers. Rit spels have insane heal, it is good, and no matter what, make sure you take a spammable mean of blocking it helps, the fact of you lacking prot is slso quite bad, ditching a spirit bond on necro's bar is never bad.

Healing Circle actually helps deal with some aoe pressure. I rarely ever see it heal melee mobs - they're usually either crippled or busy attacking minions.

Sure Weakness won't stop all melee, but with AP recharging "Ymlad" to spam cripple+KD on everything and all the spike power that's in the build, how could melee ever be a real threat? They're often free easy corpses. The only times melee can actually do any decent damage is usually when it's a derv using aoe junk or Twisting Jaws bs coming from Dinos...and blocking obviously won't do crap there. Other than that, melee are just something you "lol" at.

Now casters.....they're the ones that have a decent chance at scoring kills.

Master Necromanz · Jun 07, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Can anyone post this on wiki PvX, then more people are going to test this, because its faster then sabway, and its even powerfull, but it requieres a necro (human), thats the only problem. Maybe change to ritualist healer, cause some skills infuse and healing ring they dont used as much as it can/should.

~Master

Super Igor · Jun 07, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

My friend! Nobody tests anything on PvX, trust me. xD They know what works and what doesnt by default.

Tyla · Jun 07, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Well, cruising through GW:EN on my Ele, I used:

Me/N - Discord, Enfeebling Blood, Parasitic Bond, Cry of Frustration, Revealed Enchantment, Power Drain, Leech Signet, Resurrection Signet. 8 FC, 9 Inspiration, 11 Death, 8 Curses.

N/Mo - Discord, Death Nova, Animate Bone Minions, Putrid Bile, Protective Spirit, Aegis, Foul Feast, Infuse Condition. 12 Death, 10 Soul Reaping, 8 Protection.

E/X - Freezing Gust, Shatterstone, Glowing Ice, Blurred Vision, Glyph of Immolation, Armour of Mist, Water Attunement, Resurrection Signet. 12+1+1 Water, 11+1 Energy Storage, 6 Fire Magic.

Glyph of Immolation + Shatterstone should get them to use Discord and you get quite nice damage off it.

I only went through GW:EN to grab Norn armour though...